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Mr. Mac

Mr. Mac

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Hello Sir;

Your post has motivated me to get this project rolling on my end.
I have a couple of questions.

A: I was thinking about using Audison or Hertz speakers? Any experience with them or reliability?
B: For the rear speakers, Is there 2 to 3 inch clearance in the back of the speaker? I was thinking about using a Audison Foce 3 inch there. Would adding a four inch be feasible.
C: Was the pioneer 3.5 Coax a better sounding then the Bose unit.
D: I was thinking about using a coax on the doors - I see you went with 6.5-inch midbass/midrange in that area. Any sence of HF missing in your system?
E: I see the FRAK tweeter has unique freq responce (600 Hz - 32 kHz). Is it a warm sounding?
D: Did you replace all of the speaker cable and interconnects?
E: Does the JL Audio amps allow for individual crossover modifications on each speaker and which would eliminate the passive crossover boxes.
F: Is your source a phone or a DAP.

Thks in advance:

Joseph
Nice! Good to hear. If you love music and driving as much as I do, I completely understand the motivation.

A: If memory serves correct, Audison and Hertz are the same company, Audison being considered the higher-end of the two. No personal experience with either of them, but both have extensive product lines and solid reputations. My understanding from others with experience on these two is that Audison stuff is more refined, Hertz more ballsy.

B: Don't remember available mounting depth of rear speakers. It wasn't much, but enough for the Pioneer TS-A879 3.5-inch coaxial speakers I used. And no, 3-inch or 4-inch will not fit (3.5-inch only) unless you want to completely redesign the interior panels to accept them, which I don't recommend if you view rear fill duty they way I do described above. This is also why I don't see the need for expensive, articulate speakers for rear fill duty.

C: Yes, pretty much anything is going to sound better than the factory Bose garbage if executed properly (processing, power, installation, etc.). Again though, my opinion and preference for rear speaker is strictly to act as fill to widen front stage and add a bit of ambience. That's it, not the focus at all like front stage.

D: I do not recommend coaxial for doors at all. Doing so would compromise the front stage, particularly the height, as well as imaging because it would pull upper mid and high frequency downwards. That's what the dash locations are for (or by fabricating custom A-pillars), to bring staging/imaging higher with upper mid and high frequency so the instruments and vocals sound like they are coming from out on the hood rather than floorboard area. High frequency which is highly directional would also by physically blocked by legs if coming from door locations. Midbass on the other hand works great in the doors as it's not nearly as directional as upper mids/highs. And no, high frequency isn't missing at all in my system. It's exactly as it should be; sparkling, airy, sweet, and not fatiguing.

E: The FRAK drivers are exceptional sounding, and because they get down to 600Hz it brings that how sound stage/imaging way up where it should be instead of down low. I've got them crossed at 1kHz @ 24dB/octave, and of course time aligned. I wanted this system to by totally stealth/factory looking, and because there's only 2.5-inches to work with in factory dash locations the FRAK was perfect for this. Moral also offers a driver on this size that gets down that low too. I think Frog does as well. If I ever get itchy and want to go beyond this I would design and fabricate custom A-pillars to house a separate mid and tweeter for a three way front speaker system, but that's very doubtful given how good it already sounds as a two-way front setup. Contrary to popular belief, less is often more when it comes to this.

F (mislabeled above as D again): Yes, all new cabling was ran for every speaker, not only for optimum performance, but also so factory system stays completely intact for resale should the time come. Everything I've done can be converted back to OEM without a trace of aftermarket ever being done. The only interconnect are from the OEM signal tap to one of the VX800/8i then optical out of it daisy chained to the VX1000/1i.

G (mislabeled above as E above): Yes, system is 100% active, no passives. Every speaker has it's own dedicated channel, and every channel has it's own set of DSP controls (filters, slopes, parametric EQing, time alignment, level, etc.)

H (mislabeled above as F): iPhone is source (which technically is a DAP) using uncompressed high-resolution files. I can either run iPhone through factory head unit's Apple Car Play OR direct via USB-C to optical digital. VXi amplifiers have two sets of inputs that I can select with the control knob shown in OP installed in center console area in front of shifter.
 

zermatt

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Mr Mac, Thanks for responding. Yes, audio is fun btw, my home system is conrad - johnson, sonus faber and Tw acoustic for analog. Digital is oracle Xport and metronome DAC. I will not get that sound in my Z but I like more sense the music is breathing.

Your comments really helped. I do not want get this wrong. I do agree your ideas on the rear speaker contribution to the overall system.
 

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Mr Mac Sir; A few more questions: (for today):

A: For the wiring harness from the Infotainment head unit: Do you replace the connector or install a new harness?
B: Do you know the type of connector?
C: Does your XM radio still work with the "new system"?
D: How many hours did you spend with install the Damping materials?
E: Did install damping on the roof and floor?

Thks in advance!

jk
 
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Mr Mac, Thanks for responding. Yes, audio is fun btw, my home system is conrad - johnson, sonus faber and Tw acoustic for analog. Digital is oracle Xport and metronome DAC. I will not get that sound in my Z but I like more sense the music is breathing.

Your comments really helped. I do not want get this wrong. I do agree your ideas on the rear speaker contribution to the overall system.
No sweat. Happy to help when/where able.

Nice home gear list. You get it. This new Z setup definitely breathes music. It's now visceral.

Mr Mac Sir; A few more questions: (for today):

A: For the wiring harness from the Infotainment head unit: Do you replace the connector or install a new harness?
B: Do you know the type of connector?
C: Does your XM radio still work with the "new system"?
D: How many hours did you spend with install the Damping materials?
E: Did install damping on the roof and floor?

Thks in advance!

jk
A: Because I tapped the factory harness for clean audio signal AT the inputs of factory Bose amplifier, which is literally inches from where I installed the VXi amplifiers there was no need to replace the factory harness or connector. In fact the factory connector remains plugged into the factory amplifier. All I did was run a pair of twisted-pair cables (left –/+ & right –/+) from the tap point on factory harness to the VXi amplifiers.

B: N/A (see above)

C: SiriusXM is unaffected by any of this.

D: Damping treatments for the areas I did took about 3-4 hours total (doors and cargo area).

E: Did not do roof or forward floor/floor mat areas. No need really as there wasn't any resonance/noise found for either when doing frequency sweeps. The doors and cargo area were the only areas needing treatment.
 

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Mac,

Yes the home system is a experience. Love it beyond belief.
Back to the car system, its interesting that the bose system amp is still in tack and (I guess) its be used for the other non music audio functions. Which leads to to the next question, can you access your "super audio system" thru the head unit with the blue tooth option?
 
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Mac,

Yes the home system is a experience. Love it beyond belief.
Back to the car system, its interesting that the bose system amp is still in tack and (I guess) its be used for the other non music audio functions. Which leads to to the next question, can you access your "super audio system" thru the head unit with the blue tooth option?

Don't believe the factory Bose amplifier is handling anything other than music audio (or was rather), but I left it installed and plugged in just incase anything else from factory does happen to need it.

Regarding factory head unit and Bluetooth; Yes, all features and functions work exactly the way they did originally. Apple CarPlay, Bluetooth, WiFi, steering wheel controls, hands-free calling, driver alerts, etc. all intact*. The only difference is that the factory head unit's low level pre-amp audio signal is now feeding the aftermarket system. That's it. Oh, and as an added bonus of doing it this way is that the factory noise cancellation and phony exhaust sound that originally operates on the factory Bose amplifier is now bypassed because you do not want any of that nonsense plaguing aftermarket system, and it didn't require a trip to dealer and pay for them to turn those unwanted features off. Another bonus is that those features will still be there active and ready to go if/when the time comes to sell/trade vehicle and return audio completely back to stock.

* I should clarify that I don't use radio or any of the built-in factory navigation stuff so I can't say with 100% certainty that those still work, but have no reason to believe they don't. Haven't listened to radio in decades, and Waze is my go-to nav app that works flawlessly on factory head through Apple CarPlay.
 
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Mac; I am zeroing on my system update. I create a new thread for that when we start I found a good installer here in Maryland. I showed him your threads on this topic and he finds them very helpful. He ask me to reach out to you and if you could fill us in on how you disabled the noise cancelation system - turn of form the head unit or did you just unplug those speakers?

thks in advance!
 
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Mac; I am zeroing on my system update. I create a new thread for that when we start I found a good installer here in Maryland. I showed him your threads on this topic and he finds them very helpful. He ask me to reach out to you and if you could fill us in on how you disabled the noise cancelation system - turn of form the head unit or did you just unplug those speakers?

thks in advance!
The automatic noise cancellation system AND the phony exhaust sound system are both routed through the factory Bose amplifier, and because I am completely bypassing the factory Bose amplifier by acquiring the clean low-level stereo audio signal BEFORE the factory Bose amplifier to feed the aftermarket system there's no need to have them turned off since they are no longer in the signal path.
 
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Mr Mac, thanks for being our audio advisor.

Can you confirm the Pioneer TS-A879 fit in the rear, Cruchfield says otherwise? Idealy I would put the JL Audio CF-350mt back there if we have extra room.
 
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Mr Mac, thanks for being our audio advisor.

Can you confirm the Pioneer TS-A879 fit in the rear, Cruchfield says otherwise? Idealy I would put the JL Audio CF-350mt back there if we have extra room.
Can confirm Pioneer TS-A879 does fit as that is what I have already installed. As far as I know, JL Audio CF-350mt will fit too because it is also a 3.5-inch, and in fact that's what I was originally going to go with for rear fill, but chose TS-A879 instead because they are substantially higher power handling than CF-350mt.

PS: Crutchfield unfortunately does not have their ducks in row when it comes to many vehicles in their database. They are notorious for having bad data on this sorta stuff.
 

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Can confirm Pioneer TS-A879 does fit as that is what I have already installed. As far as I know, JL Audio CF-350mt will fit too because it is also a 3.5-inch, and in fact that's what I was originally going to go with for rear fill, but chose TS-A879 instead because they are substantially higher power handling than CF-350mt.

PS: Crutchfield unfortunately does not have their ducks in row when it comes to many vehicles in their database. They are notorious for having bad data on this sorta stuff.

Oh thats fantastic! Depth space was the concern. If it fits the JL CF-350m would be ideal. The Pioneers are backordered for a few months, plus I have the JL Audio C3-600 and JL Audio 10TW3-D8 as the other speakers. I know it isnt important but for some reason I prefer to unify brands. I was just regarding these rear speakers as filler.

Screenshot 2024-07-29 134819.png
 
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Oh thats fantastic! Depth space was the concern. If it fits the JL CF-350m would be ideal. The Pioneers are backordered for a few months, plus I have the JL Audio C3-600 and JL Audio 10TW3-D8 as the other speakers. I know it isnt important but for some reason I prefer to unify brands. I was just regarding these rear speakers as filler.
Two points of caution/concern you may want to consider when it comes to the C3-600 components, first being that they are 6.0-inch, not 6.5-inch. 6.0-inch will obvious fit with an adapter plate that reduces down to 6.0-inch, but if you are trying to achieve as much front stage midbass frequency and energy as possible from the doors you'll want as much cone area as possible. Second being that the C3 tweeters are only good down to ~4kHz, which means they won't be able to bring the front stage/imaging up higher as well as alternative solutions that get down to ~600Hz-1kHz being mounted in factory dash locations.

Don't know how critical a listener you are, or if switching to a different front component set is in the cards here, but just wanted to share this food for thought if interested.
 

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Two points of caution/concern you may want to consider when it comes to the C3-600 components, first being that they are 6.0-inch, not 6.5-inch. 6.0-inch will obvious fit with an adapter plate that reduces down to 6.0-inch, but if you are trying to achieve as much front stage midbass frequency and energy as possible from the doors you'll want as much cone area as possible. Second being that the C3 tweeters are only good down to ~4kHz, which means they won't be able to bring the front stage/imaging up higher as well as alternative solutions that get down to ~600Hz-1kHz being mounted in factory dash locations.

Don't know how critical a listener you are, or if switching to a different front component set is in the cards here, but just wanted to share this food for thought if interested.
Thanks, I appreciate your expertise on this
 
 






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