Instrument Tested & Comparison: 2023 Nissan Z Performance vs. 2022 GR Supra 3.0 Premium Review
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Evolution
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I have a set of each of those tires right now and highly disagree based on actual experience, not just what I read on the internet.
bboypuertoroc
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You say that like I don't have experience with them or don't know plenty of people that have any experience with them...
Bobcat
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Those numbers are a little disappointing, but Hagerty's times were better (4.3 to 60 in 0-60 manual and 4.0 in the auto) are much closer to the Supra's time. I like the look of the Z better, but that straight six in the Supra...makes awesome power and torque, sounds awesome and gets good gas mileage. The Z does undercut the Supra in price, but ADM's will most likely make it about the same at least at first and $1695 for red, WTF?
because_murica
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No real suprises there - just a bunch of "enthusiasts" that bought into an automatic Toyota built by a third company using BMW parts. You know, the real, hardcore car guys
P.S. - most ot them probably can't even drive stick
romanLegion
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Ah the "only manual drivers are enthusiasts" guy...I wonder when Internet explorer is finally gonna tell you that automatics and DCTs are faster, and that the human pressing the clutch pedal is the bottleneck in going fast.No real suprises there - just a bunch of "enthusiasts" that bought into an automatic Toyota built by a third company using BMW parts. You know, the real, hardcore car guys
P.S. - most ot them probably can't even drive stick
F1, WRC, the R35 GTR, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Koenigsegg (especially the Regera), the Dodge Demon, and so many more companies would like a word.
Real car enthusiasts don't blindly gatekeep because they understand the pros and cons of autos, DCTs, and traditional manuals.
And this is what I used to learn to drive stick.
Evolution
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He also is one of those people that don't understand that partnering with bmw is basically the same thing as Nissan recycling an old car. They did it to offer us a car at an affordable price. It's a compromise on both sides. Toyota guys wished it would have been an actual Toyota. Nissan guys wish they got a new car from the ground up. But no, this is what we were dealt.
Denver the Last Dinosaur
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Faster at changing gears, yes, obviously, (although until more recently they also had the tendency to pick the "wrong" gear).
BUT almost everyone who is a real car enthusiast or driving expert will tell you the manual car is more "fun" and a better "driving experience". Most of the Z reviewers tell you to get the manual, most of the Supra reviewers tell you to get the manual (now that it exists), ...
The reality is that sheer speed for the sake of it is an utterly pointless exercise, especially on public roads. What you really want is the better driving experience ... and that usually means a manual car, and a direct driver-to-mechanical-bits link with as few electronic interfering gimmicks as possible.
If all you want is sheer speed, you're better off getting a drag racer to use down at the local sprint strip.
because_murica
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No one that's a legitimate enthusiast cares that autos and DCTs are faster. And the whole point of F1 and WRC is to shave tenths of seconds - again, not really pertinent, even to those of us tracking our cars. The point is to have an engaging driving experience. Aside from the Porsche PDK, you're not going to get that with any auto or DCT on the market.
But we're straying from the point - which is that MKV Supra owners are not enthusiasts on the same level as some of us here, that care about a legitimate JDM sports car, regardless of how slow it is.
It's not the same thing, like at all. Not even a little bit the same. More power to you if you don't care it's not real JDM. That wasn't a compromise I was willing to make (not the mention I feel the MKV is butt ugly).
If, say, in an alternate universe, Nissan had partnered with Alfa Romeo for an even better Z that what we have now, albeit on an Alfa chassis and powertrain, I would be saying the same thing.
bboypuertoroc
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I didn't imply you didn't have experience with them but you sure as shit implied I didn't and was just regurgitating what I read online.
I've ran no less than 9 different tires on my Evo, and all of them have seen track time, and most were on the same suspension and all minus my current tires were on the same wheels. I might have a little insight.
Evolution
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First half of your quote is true.
Second half, have you actually tracked on PSS tires? If so, you would know they are good for one good hot lap and literally begin to chunk apart past that. It's not as great of a tire as you are making it seem.
bboypuertoroc
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Autocrossed on them. No track where I was living at the time. And I'm not trying to make it seem like it's great on a road course, but it sure as hell is on the street. Which is what I originally said. Which brings us back to street tires, which is where that tire excels.
Evolution
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I'm done after this post. My statement still stands that I (may just be person preference) like the p Zeros better for an all around street tire. I stick to 200tw tires for the track (rt660s this time around) and for that reason, have a track wheel/tire setup and a street setup. Can't have it all in one tire.
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