Toyota GR 86 vs Nissan Z

[zeeder]

I need to tell my brother his ZL1 1LE isn't a sports car because it has back seats. I can connect you two so when you take your new Z to the track you can let him know how you have a real sports car. He'll leave the back seats in; may even leave the baby seat. I would say his taillights look good, but I have a feeling you wouldn't be close enough to see 'em. GT350...nah...family sedan! Phenomenal logic you have. By your own admission a Z is a lower-tier sports car...whatever that means. The BRZ is a more budget friendly sports car. Still a sports car. And have you been in a 350/370? Maybe own one? Agreed, those interior are creme de la creme. Nissan made ZERO compromises there. I'm not a twins owner or aspire to be one, but I am an objective person. I guess I should get some of your Z Kool-Aid! Heck, you may be snorting Z Kool-Aid.

You've got to love semantic arguments on the internet! Isn't the Camaro, technically, a pony car?! There's no real definition for any of these terms just ideas that we each bring to the party. Does it really matter to you, or your brother, if someone else thinks their car qualifies as a "sports car" vs a "pony car" vs a "GT car" ad nauseam?!

 

[RicerX]

I need to tell my brother his ZL1 1LE isn't a sports car because it has back seats.

You should. Because it's a pony car. They're sick cars though.

Ask the longstanding Camaro and Mustang owners that understand the heritage of those cars - they're in a segment all in their own. Traditional sports cars are two seat cars. Pony cars can perform like true sports cars (even smash many of them - the ZL1 and GT350 are pretty amazing with what they can do.

I can connect you two so when you take your new Z to the track you can let him know how you have a real sports car. He'll leave the back seats in; may even leave the baby seat.

God, getting children in and out of that thing has to absolutely suck.

I would say his taillights look good, but I have a feeling you wouldn't be close enough to see 'em.

You're adorable. Is this your first time?

Get out more. I have seen a Juke with a roll cage and R compounds put up a better autocross time than a guy in a C6 Grand Sport. Just because it makes 600hp doesn't automatically make it faster in all situations, especially not with driver skill in the equation. But maybe you're a "highway roll from 60mph" kind of guy that button mashes and rage quits Call of Duty on weekends.

By your own admission a Z is a lower-tier sports car...whatever that means.

It means that In the grand landscape of pure sports cars (it goes from a Z all the way up to a $161k 911 GT3), the Z IS a lower-tiered sports car. It was intended to be a budget Corvette in the American market when it debuted in 1969.

However, if oversimplifying the classification of performance cars into "sports cars", have at it and enjoy yourself. You can go work for AutoGuide whenever you want.

The BRZ is a more budget friendly sports car. Still a sports car. And have you been in a 350/370? Maybe own one? Agreed, those interior are creme de la creme. Nissan made ZERO compromises there.

I've owned three Zs, for the record. Where did you read anything about interior in my post? Interiors don't matter in sports cars The Z has two seats, three pedals, and a steering wheel. Box, checked.

But I guess, by your logic, we can start chastising Porsche on the woeful interior in the 911 GT2 RS Clubsport. What were they thinking?

I'm not a twins owner or aspire to be one, but I am an objective person. I guess I should get some of your Z Kool-Aid! Heck, you may be snorting Z Kool-Aid.

I'm only not objective when I offend people who like the BRZ so much they can't see my argument. Sorry I triggered you, bud. Welcome to the club!

 

[siggy]

You've got to love semantic arguments on the internet! Isn't the Camaro, technically, a pony car?! There's no real definition for any of these terms just ideas that we each bring to the party. Does it really matter to you, or your brother, if someone else thinks their car qualifies as a "sports car" vs a "pony car" vs a "GT car" ad nauseam?!

Nah I'm not that worried about it. Just silly to say the BRZ is not a sports car because it has compromises. Every vehicle has compromises. Plenty of BRZ's at the track. Then to go on and say it's not a sports car because it has a back seat. Too funny.

 

[siggy]

You should. Because it's a pony car. They're sick cars though.

Ask the longstanding Camaro and Mustang owners that understand the heritage of those cars - they're in a segment all in their own. Traditional sports cars are two seat cars. Pony cars can perform like true sports cars (even smash many of them - the ZL1 and GT350 are pretty amazing with what they can do.



God, getting children in and out of that thing has to absolutely suck.



You're adorable. Is this your first time?

Get out more. I have seen a Juke with a roll cage and R compounds put up a better autocross time than a guy in a C6 Grand Sport. Just because it makes 600hp doesn't automatically make it faster in all situations, especially not with driver skill in the equation. But maybe you're a "highway roll from 60mph" kind of guy that button mashes and rage quits Call of Duty on weekends.



It means that In the grand landscape of pure sports cars (it goes from a Z all the way up to a $161k 911 GT3), the Z IS a lower-tiered sports car. It was intended to be a budget Corvette in the American market when it debuted in 1969.

However, if oversimplifying the classification of performance cars into "sports cars", have at it and enjoy yourself. You can go work for AutoGuide whenever you want.



I've owned three Zs, for the record. Where did you read anything about interior in my post? Interiors don't matter in sports cars The Z has two seats, three pedals, and a steering wheel. Box, checked.

But I guess, by your logic, we can start chastising Porsche on the woeful interior in the 911 GT2 RS Clubsport. What were they thinking?



I'm only not objective when I offend people who like the BRZ so much they can't see my argument. Sorry I triggered you, bud. Welcome to the club!

Bud? Assumptions? You clearly don't debate for a living. I could pick this apart into a million pieces, but I have better things to do. I'll let you keep believing your logic is irrefutable.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

 

[zeeder]

Nah I'm not that worried about it. Just silly to say the BRZ is not a sports car because it has compromises. Every vehicle has compromises. Plenty of BRZ's at the track. Then to go on and say it's not a sports car because it has a back seat. Too funny.

Yeah, I used to be one of the people that had an old-school definition of sports car: two-seater, rear wheel drive, manual, etc. Performance vehicles now come in all shapes and sizes and the lines are so blurred it's not really worth making the distinction, definitely not arguing about it...lol!

 

[Z_Coastal]

Yeah, I used to be one of the people that had an old-school definition of sports car: two-seater, rear wheel drive, manual, etc. Performance vehicles now come in all shapes and sizes and the lines are so blurred it's not really worth making the distinction, definitely not arguing about it...lol!

100%

 

[Z34_2.0]

 

[jdm-rhd]

is this like the matrix movie...where you can take the red pill or blue pill?

 

[DevonK]

I can say without a doubt those images of the GR86 are totally faked, they look like a Rocketbunny mod lol. The GR
86 doesn't look anywhere near as aggressive IRL.

 

[jezzza]

I can say without a doubt those images of the GR86 are totally faked

Which images?

 

[bghoward]

I am totally cross-shopping 370Z, new Z, or new BRZ/GR. (Along with Camaro SS, 1LE, vettes, maybe Lotus Elise, Cayman...)

Back to BRZ vs Z as the title suggests, they're both affordable sporty handling RWD cars. I hate the fact that so many professional reviews just go to the track. You can make a horribly handling everyday driver work well on a track. I don't think I'm a good driver, and just want a car that's fun on public roads, and fun at sane corner speeds for average drivers. I'll be putting all-seasons on whatever I buy, so that'll help, but I want a well-balance chassis so it works well while tires are slipping a bit.

I've noticed on 370Z forums that it's very hard to hear real driving experiences. Too many people talk about looks or 'what is a sportscar'. I Don't care.

What are the thoughts on how the new Z will handle normal public roads at some speed, near the edge of traction? Will it be balanced? Will it be a Mustang over-spin deathtrap? It was hard to get very good explanations through 370Z forums because most ppl just spoke of it looking cool or not, but I'd love to hear more impressions of the handling. (Turn in, mid-turn, turn exit under throttle, unplanned corrections, etc.)

I’ve daily driven a 370z for the past 9 years so I’m qualified to answer this. I’d say it’s a great handling car for the street. Steering is tight, very communicative, predictable and fairly balanced with a hint of understeer. Power is linear and builds with RPMs. It’s fun to rev out to 7600 RPMs. Low RPM torque is low compared to other cars but comes alive after 3500 or so.

My biggest complaint is that it’s an 8/10ths car. The rear end can be a bit unpredictable at the limit especially on rough roads. A real LSD would do it wonders. Maybe softer rear springs would actually increase grip. I’ve heard aftermarket sway bars can help…

The shifter feels great. Satisfying gates, short throws. A blast. Synchro rev is amazing for a daily car. I would never buy a new manual car today without it.

The stock clutch is weirdly springy. Literally has a spring on it which pops up near the top. Makes smooth engagement difficult. I ended up replacing the stock clutch pedal when mine snapped one day. Best mod I’ve ever made to the car. Clutch pedal feels great engagement is predictable. I can feel EXACTLY where the engagement point is at

Also I’ve autocrossed my Z quite a bit. It’s not very competitive in its class. Too heavy to be a momentum car like a Miata, BRZ, S2000 and not enough power to compete with vettes, Camaros and Mustangs.

The big downsides for a daily are the tire and road noise. It’s fine for short trips but drones on for anything more than an hour. I hate long road trips in it. I feel like I either turn the radio way up to drown it out, or I feel like I want to wear ear plugs. The upgraded Bose system is supposed to have noise canceling but I have not experienced it so can’t comment on it.

The car has been extremely reliable. The ONLY issue I’ve had outside normal maintenance is the clutch pedal breaking. I’ve never heard anyone else have that issue. Likely it was a bad weld from the factory. Even then it was 6 years in to ownership and only cost like $200.

 

[DevonK]

@bghoward, thanks for sharing your experience with your Z, very helpful for non-owners like myself. Re your 8 10ths comment, I don't know if you have seen his review but Chris Harris came to that same conclusion.

On the clutch spring, when I test drove a recent car with the Exedy clutch Nissan switched to it seemed fine, and as the new Z will continue to use that clutch maybe that won't be an issue.

+1 on the rev matching. I don't know why Toyota didn't contribute it's rev-matching tech from the MT Corolla to the new twins. Its absence is one of the two reasons I'll likely give them a pass, the second being the ugly engine sound in-cabin.

 

[jezzza]

Its absence is one of the two reasons I'll likely give them a pass, the second being the ugly engine sound in-cabin.

Is the 86 in-cabin engine sound any worse than that of the newer 370z? On a test drive it didn't bother me much but was definitely noticeable and slightly odd. I imagine the Performance Z will have the same 'soundtrack'.

 

[bghoward]

@bghoward, thanks for sharing your experience with your Z, very helpful for non-owners like myself. Re your 8 10ths comment, I don't know if you have seen his review but Chris Harris came to that same conclusion.

On the clutch spring, when I test drove a recent car with the Exedy clutch Nissan switched to it seemed fine, and as the new Z will continue to use that clutch maybe that won't be an issue.

+1 on the rev matching. I don't know why Toyota didn't contribute it's rev-matching tech from the MT Corolla to the new twins. Its absence is one of the two reasons I'll likely give them a pass, the second being the ugly engine sound in-cabin.

I’m hopeful about the new Z addressing the 370z’s short comings. I recently had a chance to drive a friends Boss 302 mustang. Amazing car all around, but I came away feeling like the steering was numb / vague and the chassis was less communicative then my Z. At the limit it felt much more sure footed then my Z though.

That experience showed me that the Z generally has a good chassis but I think the suspension needs some real tuning to be competitive. Small things like a real LSD to put power down better, improve the clutch feel, improved damping, etc would go a long way. It seems like those are specifically addressed with the new Z. I’m hopeful that with “Mr GTR” being in charge on the new Z Nissan can turn it into a 10/10ths car.

 

[DevonK]

Is the 86 in-cabin engine sound any worse than that of the newer 370z? On a test drive it didn't bother me much but was definitely noticeable and slightly odd. I imagine the Performance Z will have the same 'soundtrack'.

To be honest, I wasn't a great fan of the 370Z's in-cabin engine sound when I drove it, compared to say a pony car V8, but it was still miles ahead of the 86's. And the new 86 is hardly improved if the POV videos I have seen and heard are any indication. There is one video from Japan in which the new twins' dedicated "sound-enhancing" speaker hidden in the dash is disconnected and the sound improves substantially but it was then far too quiet.

From the little we've heard so far I think the new engine in the Z will sound substantially better than the 370Z's. That's especially evident in the short "Escape" Nissan promo video on their site - but there is a chance that sound was "augmented" in the editing process.